Thursday, March 22, 2007

Quick Challenge Update, and the Dangers of Limping with AA and KK

Below is an update through last night which is about 27 hours into the challenge.

Hands Played 740
FTPs Earned 708
Bonus Cleared $42.50
Winnings $136.55
Total Profit $179.05
Personal Rake (from Poker Tracker) $53.25
Bonus Rakeback Percentage 80%

I am off to a pretty good start after last night. Also, I am going to take Bayne's advice and also try to get 3000 FTPs this week, and qualify for the WSOP ME Freeroll.

Below is a hand from last night, that was like nothing I have seen before. It really shows the dangers of limping with AA and KK, and slowplaying after the flop. In this hand players were dealt AA and KK, but there was no raise preflop, and 6 players got to see it. I am going to show what the key players had, and comment on each of their actions. It would be interesting to see who you think misplayed this hand the most/least.

FullTiltPoker Game #2039910525: Table Lost Miner - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:38:41 ET - 2007/03/21
Seat 1: U2scubal ($255.80)
Seat 2: morty13579 ($51)
Seat 3: S56677B ($307.65)
Seat 4: Not Swift ($195)
Seat 5: sami99 ($205.60)
Seat 6: joanemilie ($68.60)
Seat 7: Blinders ($193)
Seat 8: Cash Dumper ($75)
Seat 9: UrATM ($127.50)
U2scubal posts the small blind of $1
morty13579 posts the big blind of $2
Cash Dumper posts $2
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Blinders [6d 6c]
S56677B [KK] calls $2

Limping from UTG with KK. This is a marginal play. I would much rather do this with AA, but I have done it before with success.

Not Swift folds
sami99 folds
joanemilie [AA] calls $2

Overlimping with AA when we already have one limper and a dead BB. He is giving the SB great odds to complete, and the BB obviously will see the flop, so it will be a 5-way flop minimum if he does not raise. This is about as poorly as you can play AA preflop IMO.

Blinders calls $2

I have great odds to set mine. No need to raise.

Cash Dumper checks
UrATM folds
U2scubal [74o] calls $1

Junk hand, but appears to be getting 12-1 odds to call. Completing the SB is the obvious play here even with junk.

morty13579 checks
*** FLOP *** [3c 7s 7c]
U2scubal checks
morty13579 checks
S56677B [KK] bets $8

KK is taking a stab. This is a decent play. If I limp with AA or KK, and nobody raises behind and the flop is 6-way, I am looking to take an inexpensive stab, and keep the pot small. I will be ready to release an overpair pretty easy here, as my limp preflop plan pretty much failed.

joanemilie calls $8

AA overcalls here which is horrible IMO. He needs to reraise right now to see if he is still good. If he does not find out right now things will get real expensive.

Blinders folds

My read on KK was that he was overly aggressive. I was planning on reraising him to see if I was ahead. The overcall + the 6-way flop spooked me, so I changed my mind and folded.

Cash Dumper folds
U2scubal calls [47o] $8

He hit trips and overcalls the two bets. I think you need to raise here to start building a pot with two others already showing strength.

morty13579 folds
*** TURN *** [3c 7s 7c] [Kh]
U2scubal checks

Trip sevens continues with his slowplay. Had he raised the flop, he could have fired here as well and kept building the pot.

S56677B bets $20

KK hits his set, and fires a decent sized bet. I like this a lot.

joanemilie calls $20

AA is still flying blind. A 6-way flop is way too dangerous for this. Might be time to fold, but at least time to finally show some strength. Calling is not a good idea here.

U2scubal calls $20

Trip sevens continues the slow play. Not that bad at this point as it is pretty clear KK will continue to bet.

*** RIVER *** [3c 7s 7c Kh] [Ts]
U2scubal checks

Safe card for trip sevens. He continues to play it slow.

S56677B bets $54

Value bet. Nice play.

joanemilie calls $38.60, and is all in

All-in blind with AA and no help in a 6-way flop with a ton of strength shown by KK. I guess he got himself pot committed without ever finding out where he was at.

U2scubal calls $54

Trip sevens must call this, Pushing in is another valid option.

*** SHOW DOWN ***
S56677B shows [Kd Kc] (a full house, Kings full of Sevens)
U2scubal mucks
S56677B wins the side pot ($30.80) with a full house, Kings full of Sevens
joanemilie shows [Ad As] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
S56677B wins the main pot ($208.80) with a full house, Kings full of Sevens
joanemilie is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $242.60 Main pot $211.80. Side pot $30.80. Rake $3
Board: [3c 7s 7c Kh Ts]
Seat 1: U2scubal (small blind) mucked [7h 4d] - three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 2: morty13579 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: S56677B showed [Kd Kc] and won ($239.60) with a full house, Kings full of Sevens
Seat 4: Not Swift didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: sami99 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: joanemilie showed [Ad As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 7: Blinders folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Cash Dumper folded on the Flop
Seat 9: UrATM (button) didn't bet (folded)

I think KK played it best and was very lucky to hit his 2-outer on the turn. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if the K did not turn. He was in third place on the flop, and had no idea where he was. AA played horrible on all streets. Had he raised preflop, I bet all the money goes in and they lose trip sevens, and me who could have hit a set. Then at least he gets it in ahead, which would have felt better, then calling on all streets with a loser. Trip sevens was in a tough spot here. If the poker Gods were on his side, he would have stacked AA, and got a nice chunk from KK as well. I still think he went too far with the slowplay, but in this case it made no difference. I got out cheap on a flop that there was a decent chance I was ahead on.

Crazy hand. Anyone ever see AA and KK both limp preflop in NL holdem?

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At 10:20 AM, Blogger lucko said...

I saw AA and AA both limp preflop once. Crazy hand.

I pretty much agree with your analysis except in one spot. I like the AA call on the flop. He has 4 people behind him to act and his call has to be scary to any non-seven hand. He is going to get a lot of info by calling here. Once it gets called behind, he can pretty much muck his hand safely on the turn.

If it folds around, he has to feel there is a very good chance his hand is good against the UTG limper as there aren't many hands he can have that have a 7 in it.

I don't mind calling there and reevaluating after seeing additional action. The fact that he called down his stack after than is laughable though.

At 12:32 PM, Blogger Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...

Yeah AA played that hand on all streets IMO about as badly as anyone could ever play AA. Worst of all to me was the preflop overlimp, which makes no sense at all.

I do kinda like to limp from EP with KK once in a while, though you're right that AA or AK are better candidates for this move than KK is because of the lack of overcards that can hit on the flop if everyone just limps/checks behind you and you never get your chance to reraise.

I think trip 7s fell into the trap and played a little too slow, especially early on in the hand. A proper bet on the flop might have gotten KK out (probably not, but the 74o guy has no clue that his opponents are on KK and AA like that, and given all the preflop limps I think pushing harder on the flop with the trips is the far preferable (and more profitable) move. Very amateur and obvious type of slowplay there on the flop and it ended up costing him the whole hand and a lot of beans. Especially with the cripe kicker that he had to go along with the 7, he ought to want to find out early in the hand whether he might be up against the case 7, in which case he is almost surely beat.


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